Religion thread

[SilverSergyon13]

Ok, Can't find the religion thread, so I started another one. I just wanted to post what I wrote on another forum I'm a part of. Thought you guys might be interested.

<OK, I'm not gonna start anything to be mean, but I enjoy a good debate now and then. I'm definitely not pushing my beliefs on anyone, just giving some food for thought. I think a religion debate thread would be good. I think we are old enough to discuss this maturely.

I for one don't believe in the bible. After reading some of the stories, I believe that they are just that...stories. I don't really believe in the fact that Jesus came to Earth and was His son, I believe that more as symbolism. I think the bible was written by a bunch of people inspired by God, I don't think God himself wrote it.

As for Heaven and Hell, I find them very very interesting. If you think about it, no two people believe in the same exact God. God to one person may mean something totally different to another. You may have the same idea of God, but to you he looks different, he acts different, he may even be a totally different person. Same goes for the devil. Some people may think the devil is totally evil and looks like a horned man with a tail who lives in the firey depths of hell. To another he may not be so bad. While to one person the Devil is evil, to another he may be the one that gives them hope and lets them realize that the bad will be punished. Of course, this all deals with how you have lived your life. Now I'm not saying these ppl worship the devil or anything, but I'm saying that some believe that to have a God who is all good and powerful, there must always be a counter force, a devil if you will. This is what I believe. I do not fear the devil and I do not fear Hell. I believe in a sense that God and the Devil are needed for one another. While one punishes the evil, another rewards the good. Basically what I am saying is you need one to have the other. (in my opinion)

Every one has the different ideas about heaven and Hell as well. Therefore, no two people believe in the same heaven or Hell. No two people have the same beliefs to what is right and what is wrong. So how can there be a standard of what brings you to heaven and what sends you to hell? You can go with the bible, but I believe that the bible says God is all forgiving and accepts all. By saying someone from a different religion is going to hell is shunning that person...in a way they are thought of as lower then those who believe they are going to heaven. How is that a righteous thing? As a person, I shun no religion. I respect them and I respect the beliefs. I do have my own beliefs, which may conflict with theirs, but whats so wrong about them believing they are going to their heaven and I believing I'm going to my heaven?

Then again, is heaven just a comfort thought for humans, so they don't have to think about the fact that when we die, we might just be dead and decomposing? Why is it so hard for people to think about this? I even cringe at the thought of having nothing to look forward to after this life, and therefore I have created an after life in my mind. After awhile that becomes so real to me that I believe it.

I have seen some Christians who are nasty to people, who shun all but who they think are "perfect" and they still think they are going to Heaven. If this is the way the God of the Catholic/Christians wants us to act, then I say screw that. I would rather act nice, accept all people/animals as equal, and be the best I can be. I have a God I believe in and I believe that even if I don't get into heaven, I will at least have the knowledge that I tried and did my best. That above all is what would satisfy me the most. That is my heaven.

Now no one get mad at me. I'm not pushing my beliefs on anyone, just stating what I believe. Like I said, please don't get mad. State all your beliefs too. I would love to hear them. I love reading about people's beliefs as it opens me up and allows me to understand them a bit more. It also gives me something to think about, which I hope what I typed will do the same for you.>

And so it begins.... ;D

[Cy Skywalker]

ok, all goop. The other thread was pushed down...

never does it say the Bible was written by God. Each book has its author, who was inspired to write what God was telling them. In that way it is very personal, but is also used to create morals that are the basis of our society today even though it's not really noticable.

i agree with that you need to have the the devil to sort of balance things out, that's why God allowed the fall. It is us humans who decide which way to go though, which side to serve, how to be rewarded. Interesting that the devil can be hope for people who want bad things punished...but it is not really our place to judge that either.

i really don't know about the afterlife. i believe because i must that i will be in the heaven spoken of by the Bible, but what that is i really don't know. it is kept very vague by the Bible itself. Maybe for different people, heaven is different things. i do believe questions like these with certainly be answered there.

the Christian God nowhere says to not accept people of other religions. Jesus teaches kindness and acceptance along with evangelism (bringing people to our faith.) Some Christians, like the ones on that website, be they real or fake, do hold the mistaken belief that all other people that do not believe as they do should be burned, etc. This is not what I or the Christians i associate with believe, and it is not what the Bible says.

indeed, such debates reveal things about people...and knowledge is always a good thing.

"you do not truely know someone untill you fight them." Seraph, Matrix Reloaded ;D

[Kora]

Yeah, the Bible was written by guys who were inspired by God, therefore God did write it. Basically what I believe is what John 3:16 says; "For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

Those "Christians" that are nasty to the people that don't believe what they believe are stupid! I mean, God created everyone and He loves everyone. Even those who worship satan...I think...Some people just say they Christians and they think it just means they belive in a god. I believe that is incorrect.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1. I believe in what I believe is the One and only true God. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believe God loved us so much He sent His only Son to die on the cross to save us from the firey pit of Hell. So that one day we can be in His presence forever.

[Jedi Arwen ~ Protector of Life]

Whoo!
Go KT!

I'm with ya all the way there KT!

I stoped by for a peek of this thread. And all i have to say for now is........I'm Catholic, GO KT!, and maybe I'll stop back in later..........

[Puya89]

*fellowship theme plays*

JESUS ROXS!

[Jedi Arwen ~ Protector of Life]

Whoo hoo!

Go 89!

[Cy Skywalker]

well that was...consice...but ok! I, for one, have this new evidence that I must believe in God because i feel myself fighting for Him...but I have just started.

[SilverSergyon13]

Just started how?

Everyone believes in something. God to one person is totally different to another.

[Kora]

I don't think that is correct, Silver. How can God be different to you than He is to me? I don't get how that could work at all.

[SilverSergyon13]

When I say, think of God...picture him in your mind, his personality, his traits, everything about him. Would you picture him in the exact same way as I do? No, because everyone is different. The God you believe in may be the same general god of that religion, but your personal beliefs of him is a reflection of yourself. This is the reason no two people believe the same thing...because everyone is different. You may be methodist, baptist, cathlic or whatever, but you can't tell me that you believe in EVERYTHING exactly to the way the religion tells you to. It is impossible for two different people to believe in the same exact thing. Even your visions of heaven and hell are different from mine, your beliefs of the bible, your view of religion. It is for this reason that I say no two people believe in the same EXACT religion.

[kanedbydemons]

I know what you mean about the different views of religion thing, but to my mind that all comes because of interpretation. Surely every Christian agrees that God is good, right? That's because it's been said explicitly in the Bible itself. But there are many things that are only said implicitly or have been left for us to decide on and so the different views of God and Christianity rise from those things that have been left for us to decide on. That's what I think.

I also things that the whole reason that we haven't been told everything explicitly but instead left to make our own minds up on some points is because God des not want a race of perfect human beings who all believe exactly the same thing and have no choice about what they believe. I've always believed that He wanted us to be allowed to make our own minds up about what we do and what we believe because then those people who choose to do as He commanded prove that they are truely worthy.

I have no idea whether any of that makes sense and you probably all disagree, but that's my view.

[MFB]

*sigh* Ok, I guess since this thing has heated up, I'll have to say something. Likely, as with all other debates, something will happen that causes mass dislike of myself. But hopfully it is known that I never intend to harm.

Belief: ((According to Webster's New World Dictionary)) Conviction that certain things are true. Religious faith.

Conviction: Strongly convinced that something is true.

And the definition I like best; the Christian definition:

The acceptance of the mind of Christian teaching, because it comes from divine revelation.

Therefore, what you are stating that no two people can believe in the same thing is incorrect. A more appropreate way to say it is no two people immagine God the same. Which can also be untrue.

During High School, I've taken a four-course Theology subject. I know what my faith teaches. I believe in every bit of it. It is not as hard as you propose, Silver. And there is a certain point where religion teaching gives way to something else...conscience.

But that would be a different matter.

All I'm saying is, and correct me if I'm wrong, KT, that me and KT can and do believe in the same God. The Three in One; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; Merciful, Just, Caring, Love infinite; He who became man, suffered, and died that we might reach heaven; the Holy Spirit, who dwels within us, guiding us to the path of richousness and truth; and He who will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead; but, my favorite of all, Christ, our friend.

Why can't anyone believe in the same things pertaining to religion? Maybe you can't, so you suppose others cannot. But I can faithfully say that I've met many Catholics who believe in the same things I do: Catholic faith. For one who cannot accept the teachings of God, his Church, and the Holy Father, cannot be called a Catholic. Catholic means universal; united. One cannot be united if they dissagree with the Mystical Body.

And don't think that I'm all into the facts of my religion. That is just what Imust know to practice it. Practicing it in itself is the part I love. Nothing gives one greater joy than a pure soul and a lighted heart. Speaking to God in the Blessed Sacrament is one of my favorite "pastimes." And I love to serve on the alter, assisting the priest in the Sacrifice of the Mass; that representation of the merits Christ gained for us on the Cross of Calvary. The beauty of the cerimony; the music, the flowing Latin; the traditions; the otherworldly movements of the priest, and often, the alter servers; and that moment when Christ comes down in the appearance of Bread and Wine, changing them into the substance of His precious Body and Blood. The Mass, as I know it, is a marvel of 2000 years of Catholic religion. Truly, it takes you to another world outside of the problematioc one we have today.

[SilverSergyon13]

I realize there really is no arguing over beliefs, as it is not so easy to change them. That is why I will stay out of it.

Catholics IMO (remember, I myself am one) are very dogmatic about much of what they believe. Just because you believe something, doth not make it true. You may believe it is true, but you only have faith. To me that belief may not be the same, but just because someone else thinks I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. Therefore everyone is walking around in one big bubble thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong. People these days have no tolerance, especially when it comes to religion.

For example, missionaries. I personally don't see the purpose of them. To me all religions are correct. I wish I could believe in all of them, but unfortunately everyone usually only takes part in one. All religions are basically the same if you think about it. You may see them differently but they all have the same basic beliefs. Belief in one powerful god, belief in an afterlife, belief in worship, etc.

I don't have time to finish saying what I am trying to now, but I will later.

Basically I have been confirmed Catholic, went through almost twelve years of sunday school and have made all my sacrements so far in the catholic church. That doesn't mean I have to believe in everything the catholic religion tells me too. For example, I don't believe animals are lower then us, I don't believe reconciliation is neccessary, and I don't really believe in going to church every sunday. I still consider myself catholic, but I geuss I am just into exploring and accepting all the other religions too. Like I said, I don't think anyone is wrong, except for those few who try to force beliefs upon you. (I have come acroos quite a few)

Peace ya'll

[Kora]

But, Silver, how can you not believe what the Bible says? I mean, there's SO much proof out there that God TOTALLY exists! ...I find it so hard to believe that there was nothing...and then it blew up...lol.

Oh, MFB, we do believe in the same God. We might not believe in ALL of the same stuff but it's cool.

[Cy Skywalker]

The one thing other religions do not have and we do have (not to condemn) is Jesus. He came to prove the existance of our God and serve as a mediator between God and man. And He says that no matter what your exact beliefs, if you believe in Him and that He is the son of God you will recieve eternal life.

Now, even I had some trouble with that. It's not that I don't believe, it's that Jesus lived so long ago. What He did was to die for our sins, so that we could go to heaven despite the fact that we did/do not deserve it, we were/are sinners. Before, that, (correct me if any one knows more about this than I)...ok, so before that, what? It was the most pious, 'good
people that went to heaven? Help me MFB!

Also, on the subject of this very discussion/debate. We are probably not going to find answers here. We are all teens, all opinionated and biased by our own beliefs and pasts and purposes. Each much search out his/her truth, so that they may be lead to it. What I believe is that Chrisitans have that truth.

[SilverSergyon13]

The one thing other religions do not have and we do have (not to condemn) is Jesus. He came to prove the existance of our God and serve as a mediator between God and man.

Other religions have things/people just as valid to them as Jesus was to christians. What makes that so different from our religion? Nothing really. We could be wrong about Jesus. He may have just been a regular guy, or maybe he never existed at all and was merely a story made up to serve as symbolism.

Truth can only go so far as what you believe. Reality is what you make it.

[Kora]

I belive Jesus existed and still exists. He was and is and is to come. I would take you to the place where they nailed Him to the cross if I knew where it was! There's just TOO much proof for me that Jesus exists and that everything the Bible tells me is true.

How can you even say Jesus was just a regular guy anyway? How does He even compare to a normal guy or one of those random guys in other religions?

Silver, why don't you believe what the Bible says? I'm sorry I'm asking again but I really wanna know why. I mean...is it really hard to believe to you? I'm just curious.

[SilverSergyon13]

Oh that's ok KT, srry I didn't answer before, I got distracted.

I don't believe in the bible because it was not written by the hand of god, but by people inspired by God. I could be inspired by god and write down something; the difference between me and the writer's of the bible? I would be sent away for scitzophrenia and the writers are looked at as almost saintly. I don't get this. Most of these people writing about specific events and what not weren't even alive during the specific event, so how can they know exactly what happened with out exxagerating a bit? A lot of stuff comes to me in dreams, but I can't garuntee that they are real or that they will happen. I think the bible is filled with much wisdom, but I don't think there is much truth in it, as far as actual events go.

The reason I say Jesus could have just been a regular guy is because what about all the other religions with proof that their gods existed? For example, The mayans had a god named Kukulkan. It was written in their scriptures that the god came down from the sky in a ship of fire and taught them about time and taught them how to use fire. People witnessed this and wrote it down. They believed this to be true, just as much as you believe in Jesus. What makes them wrong and us right? They are not wrong, and we are not wrong. Just because a group of christians believe that the Mayans were wrong shows lack of tolerance and self centeredness. Not to mention this same god was also seen by the Aztecs, but in their language he was known as Queztalquotal (sp?). This to me is a lot of proof. You cannot truly prove that jesus existed, and they cannot truly prove that this fire god existed. So which religion is right? That is where faith comes in. Me, I'm tolerant. I think every religion is right in some ways, and they are all wrong in some ways. I wish I could be a bit of every (non cultist, except for the Jeep cult lol, but that's another story.) religion on earth, but unfortunately it would be very hard for this to happen.

[Kora]

Ok...I think I understand...lol. But isn't that proof that the Bible was written by God when the people that wrote it didn't write it at the time it was happening? Take the book John for example. John is about when Jesus was on the earth and teaching and stuff. Ok, so, John wrote the book John about...fifteen years (I think it was) later. So, if it wasn't God writing every little conversation, every little thing that happened...who was it? Certainly wasn't John...I mean, how could he remember all that? Twas the Holy Spirit, which is also God.

I guess you're right. What if everything was just MADE UP?! But I think it's easier to believe in Jesus than any other random religion. Plus, if I'm wrong...I got nothing to lose!

[SilverSergyon13]

Certainly wasn't John...I mean, how could he remember all that?

Could have been inspired, but what was keeping him from simply making it all up? It would not be too hard to make up stories like that. Even dreams could be like the bible stories. That doesn't necessarily make them true.

To me the bible is symbolism, that's all. They were just stories I enjoyed reading as a child. To me relgion is everyday life. Its not going to church all the time, having to sit and listen to perverted priests for an hour, or drinking germ infested wine from some dirty glass. No, religion is everyday life. It's the way you live, the actions you take, and the people you're friends with. It's how good of a person you try to be. Relgion doesn't make a better person, morals do.