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Dec 20, 2005 20:54:22 GMT -5
Post by Agathos Arete on Dec 20, 2005 20:54:22 GMT -5
Ten Little Christians, standing in a line, One disliked the pastor, then there were nine.
Nine little Christians stayed up very late, One slept too late on Sabbath, then there were eight.
Eight little Christians on their way to Heaven, One took the low road, then there were seven.
Seven little Christians chirping like some chicks, One disliked the music, then there were six.
Six little Christians seemed very much alive, but one lost his interest then there were five.
Five little Christians pulling for heaven's shore, but one stopped to rest, then there were only four.
Four little Christians, each busy as a bee One got her feelings hurt, then there were three.
Three little Christians knew not what to do, One joined the sporting crowd, then there were two.
Two little Christians, our rhyme is nearly done, differed with each other, then there was one.
One little Christian, can't do much 'tis true; brought his friend to Bible study-then there were two.
Two earnest Christians, each won one more, that doubled the number, then there were four.
Four sincere Christians worked early and worked late, Each won another, then there were eight.
Eight splendid Christians, if they doubled as before, In just a few short weeks, we'd have 1,024
In this little jingle, there is a lesson true, You either belong to The Building, Or to the wrecking crew.
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Dec 21, 2005 7:54:39 GMT -5
Post by Cy Skywalker on Dec 21, 2005 7:54:39 GMT -5
That's very interesting...kinda ironic...kinda...something else. Did you write that?
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Dec 21, 2005 9:07:09 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Dec 21, 2005 9:07:09 GMT -5
I don't know. I don't think others should be forced into believing something that isn't in their hearts. If someone truly believes in a different religion then I say let them. Doesn't mean I think they're right, it just means I respect their beliefs.
Sorry, I don't mean to be a party pooper, but I've seen way too many lives ruined because someone else continually tried to convert them to Christianity.
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Dec 21, 2005 15:05:25 GMT -5
Post by Cy Skywalker on Dec 21, 2005 15:05:25 GMT -5
I try to live/work like this, because I believe it is the Christian version of Christianity; we are supposed to evangelize, because people are meant to understand the relasionship with God, believe. It brings hope, some extraordianry happiness and strength, and supernatural prowess. But we are NOT supposed to figurativley bash people over the head with a Bible and say nothing else our entire relasionship. I don't want to be the one about whom people are talking when they say "Na, Christians are so annoying-slash-ruin other people's experience with the religion cause they try and force everyone to be like them." I want people to come to the truth. But they should do that through passively knowing my faith, which is something i can talk about as a belief but not an assertion, and they know that they can come to me if they've got problems that Christianity might be able to solve. That is how all the "recruits" i know have come to faith, and hopefully Silver this is the attitude you see in me. We can have conversations about religion and no one gets offended about it. It involves discretion, which is a spiritual gift.
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Dec 21, 2005 17:03:02 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Dec 21, 2005 17:03:02 GMT -5
I think often times Christians (certainly not all of them, but a vast majority of the more extreme Christians and I don't mean that in a good or bad way) tend to be so worried about their own religion and showing others what it's all about that they forget to look at others religions and learn about those too. Just because you learn about something doesn't mean you believe it and certainly doesn't make it taboo. For instance I know several Christians who will have nothing to do with fictional wizards because it's not "Christian". I don't get that. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you can't learn about it. I know many people who don't believe in ghosts, but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy a good scary movie now and again.
The Christian faith is domineering by nature. Throughout history, Christians have used the excuse of "converting" to wipe away the fact that they wanted to imperialize other countries and societies in order to gain more control. (Mind you, anything I say about christians pertains to myself as well, because I am Catholic. I'm not picking on anybody.) For example, do you know that Christmas was once a pagan holiday? That is where the tree, the gifts, the yule logs, and the wreaths come from. In fact, Christmas used to be called "Yule Time". It was a welcoming of the sun or the winter solstice. When Christians started taking over, they slapped the title "Christ's Birthday" on the holiday and made it theirs. They did the same for Easter, which was known as Ostrara, and Halloween, which was also a pagan holiday known as Samhain. Supposedly Christ was born somewhere in the end of May/beginning of June, so why did they claim Christmas celebrates his brithday when it was about six months in advance? Hopefully you guys get my point. I don't mean to insult anyone or their beliefs but I think even Christians need to step back and take an unbiased view on things. It's nice to know where things truly originated rather than becoming fully obsessed over the "Christian" meaning of things. Christianity is a newer religion compared to some, such as Judaism, Buddhism, Islamic, Greek, etc and I think a lot of people forget this. Not to mention there are all the other smaller branches of Christianity such as catholicism, baptist, methodist, protestant, Born-agains, etc. What was the reason for this?... Christians couldn't pull themselves together to agree and believe one common thing. Each denomination is very different in itself and each one could almost be considered a separate religion except for the fact that we all believe in Christ and God. Did you also know that Muslims and Jewish, along with a few other religions also believe in the same exact God? They also believe in a Jesus or a prophet very similiar to Jesus. What makes these religions so very different then? All of them believe in an both a positive and a negative afterlife and all of them believe in one central power. We are all very similiar, but humans are all too often wrapped up in solely what they believe in, and not the beliefs of others.
I covered a whole lot in that post so feel free to comment on anything I said and I will elaborate. I have a lot going on in my mind and I can't always formulate english words to describe it all in a way others will understand.
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Dec 21, 2005 21:06:01 GMT -5
Post by Agathos Arete on Dec 21, 2005 21:06:01 GMT -5
Very interesting questions Silver. Most of which I have discussed at length with class mates at school who are a diverse mix of religions. First off you must remember that not everyone who claims to be a Christian has a relationship with Christ, and that I don't know every thing about God or the Bible. Keeping this in mind, we will now move on to your first question about why some Christians avoid wizards. This decision to avoid wizards and other 'magics' is because of verses that state witchcraft is evil in the Lord's sight. Micah 5:12 and Revelation 21:8 are just a few verses that label witchcraft as a sin. It should not offend you that they choose to do what they believe is honoring God. It is just another way Christians choose to worship.
Silver if you don't mind me asking. Why is it you say Christianity is trying to take over and gain control? A true Christian is not much different then yourself. The only difference between anyone when it came to whether they are a Christian or not is if they have a living relationship with their savior. As for holidays, have you every look at who those Christians were? Many of them were the people who lived with those traditions all their lives. What changed their pagan celebrations into Christian celebration is they choose to do their holidays in honor of Jesus Christ, their new Lord. As for Christmas being in winter, I'm not sure why it is celebrated during this time. Does it real matter?
Your question about why there are so many different denominations is a good question. There are many different types of denominations because people believe in different forms of worship, fellowship, and how Communion should be done. God made us all unique in how we think, feel, and express ourselves. That is why there are so many different congregations.
To answer your question about what makes Christianity different from others is this, we believe we did nothing to earn salvation. It was given to us and by faith in Christ do we receive it. All other religions state you have to do works to have favor with God. Did you know that both Muslims and Jews are descendants of the same family? They are both Abraham's sons, only one was born because of faith and the other of doubt.
Yes it is true, there are people who are so stubborn minded they don't give others a chance to express their culture or believes before being shot down, but that does not mean Christianity is bad or wrong. That is just human nature showing its colors.
If you have any other questions, I will do my best to answer them.
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Dec 22, 2005 8:14:49 GMT -5
Post by Cy Skywalker on Dec 22, 2005 8:14:49 GMT -5
Domineering Christians annoy me too, because they aren't getting anything done. Obviously.
Some see *coughHarry Potter* fiction as threatening to faith because it is written to something like keep your mind on things of God, not things of...evil or the world. But it's fiction, yo...and my faith is secure enough to stay strong through worse things than fairy tales.
Christ technically could not have been born on Dec. 25. There were shepherds sitting out in the fields, and clear sky. We do not know the exact day though, and seemed Christmas was appropo.
What do you mean by "exploring" other religions? I mean I know about many of them, though I havn't reasearched them--just no interest, like i'm not too interseted in financial equations. (which i'm practically dreaming about now, thanks Lowe...) But what I think unreligious people don't get is that it's not about something to do, something that fits your lifestyle, something that makes you feel special. Religion is about truth, and I know at least some if not partial truth--paranormal evidence, it could be called, the presence of God.
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Mar 6, 2006 14:36:57 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Mar 6, 2006 14:36:57 GMT -5
Actually, while December is winter to us in the Americas, it's summer to the other side of the world. For example, at this very moment it's summer in Australia.
Anyway, I'm home sick with nothing better to do than revive old topics. This one is interesting enough.
I was talking to someone on Saturday who has very, very similar views as I do, well maybe I shouldn't say views. I should probably say they are as open minded about things as am. I did a lot of listening that day, something people don't do very often. We agreed that perhaps the reason people become enveloped in their religion is because they are afraid to explore otherwise. If you have a certain comfort zone with anything, why stray anywhere else?
When I used to go to CCD or as it's comonly known "Sunday School", I remember thinking it was a lot of "learn this", "know this", "study this", etc. There wasn't much room for personal beliefs. As young as I was I saw something wrong with that and I still do. I think people should be left to formulate their own beliefs with gentle direction, not with "You believe this because I believe this". If you question beliefs in a religious setting, you'll have those believers on you like a pack of wild hyenas. Why is that? Why do people feel the need to have everyone else believe exactly as they do, whether or not it's sociallay acceptable or right? I believe a lot has to do with control. A lot seems to be competition with churches. Who can have more members? Get a large group of people to all believe the same thing and they are easier to manage. I'm not saying all churches are like this, but church has become a sort of corrupt industry on it's own. I've seen way too many churches care about people's money and that's it. But if people believe enough, they'll do whatever the church tells them to.
A long time ago there was a man named Jones in South America I believe. My grandfather was doing film editing on this man. This man gained a group of followers, told them what he wanted them to believe and once he gained their trust he told them (I think it had to do with religion) that some kind of god wanted them to drink this sort of poison so they would be saved. The poison was put into wine. Everyone in that congregation died from the poison. They died from their beliefs and from their faith...faith in a human being.
I know I'm probably not making much sense, but my minds working fast and I'm finding it difficult to put together states that are easily understood.
I believe someone could be a Christian without ever stepping foot in a church. I believe true belief and faith comes from within the heart, from experience, and from wisdom. Not from priest (Or whatever else you call them), church, or anyone else. I belief in faith, but I'm not so sure I believe in religion.
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Mar 6, 2006 15:14:36 GMT -5
Post by Cy Skywalker on Mar 6, 2006 15:14:36 GMT -5
I believe someone could be a Christian without ever stepping foot in a church. I believe true belief and faith comes from within the heart, from experience, and from wisdom. I don't really remember much of what was said in this thread before but... I think that first statement(actually the last one in your post) is true. A lot of churches are working for money. It's sad, but that's because humans are sinning creatures by nature. I don't like it either, because see it gives Christians (or organized religion in general) a logical bad reputation. I would not attend a church that has leadership that thinks like that. But the first part is about something different. I have reasons to believe in God. 'Supernatural experiences', extraaordinary answers to prayers. When you believe this, you get a different perspective of truth than people on your point of view who are 'open-minded'. Truth does not mean 'what an individual believes'. It means 'what is in reality no matter whether an individual believes in it or not'. What is, on our little plane of existance. Christians want to get other people to join them not because it makes us feel better cause that way we've got more support. We believe that people need us, are spiritually and eternally lost without our God. If someone doesn't want that saving because of opinions they have on Earth, I at least am ok with that. I will pray for unbelievers, I will debate (sometimes... ) with people like you Silver who like to debate, but I will not say YOU MUST REPENT OR AT THE END OF THE WORLD YOU WILL BURRRNNN....muahaha. In about middle school, I would call myself Christian but didn't think much about it at all. I didn't go to church because my parents didn't. During that time I got exposed to plenty of other thought patterns, ideas. I thought about a lot of things, and made decisions. I believe in a lot of supernatural things and then when I started going to youth group discovered that they made sense along with Christianity, and not with much else. I'm not afraid of other ideas. If I was, I certainly wouldn't hang out with you, Silver.
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Mar 6, 2006 21:22:35 GMT -5
Post by SilverSergyon13 on Mar 6, 2006 21:22:35 GMT -5
People seem to look at the negatives of humanity a little too much. That's one reason why I'm partial to buddhism and a few other smaller faiths. Those faiths tend to look at the human being with a sense of awe and wonder rather than negativity. There's too much of that in our world today. I don't believe human beings were made to sin any more than I believe the bible holds the only truth in this universe. Man is man...a creature, just like every other animal on this planet. But that is me and my beliefs. They work for me and that's what I go along with, just as you believe in what you believe in. I'm sure your reasons for believing are just as valid to you as my reasons are to me. Though your reasons may seem skewed to me, it doesn't mean they are wrong. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I am wrong. This is what most of humanity fails to see.
I'm not quite sure what supernatural experiences you are refering to, but you've used that quite a bit in this thread. Are you referring to alien abductions, hauntings, and the like or something you see as a miracle? I know I can't really tie alien abductions and UFO sightings in with the bible, but I'm interested to hear your view on this. Mind you, I do know supernatural refers to quite a bit in this world, so alien abductions are not the sole extent of supernatural. I just think its funny...Mulder...ahhh...hot...and...dead...
Any who...
I find this last statement a bit disconcerting. I've seen you offended by other ideas...by some of my ideas. Was that last statement made to be negative? I was under the impression the reason we are friends is because we share many similar ideas. Perhaps I was wrong...?
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Mar 7, 2006 13:19:57 GMT -5
Post by Cy Skywalker on Mar 7, 2006 13:19:57 GMT -5
This is one of the only things we disagree on. I didn't mean there's a problem with you believing what you do here--and I know it could seen to come off as negative. I'm sorry. "seen you offended"...by what? But no you're not wrong! I was saying that to prove my point. PM me if you want to...I never seem to know what you're thinking at the right time.
What I called supernatural and was hesitant to bring up at first is what people tend to call the presense of God. It's not--you can't describe it really...it's a knowledge. When I've prayed I've known I'm praying to somewhere. It's like the plot. When you're really into a story and you know that you can see what's happening next like you didn't make it up, you can tell how that's different from when DG is making you write something and you cast about for plot and there is none. Prayer with and without presense is like that.
Every person has sin. It's not that there are not awesome things about us, or that just like any animal we can have different aditudes, or that we can't be really described as a group. But every person has problems. But we weren't made to sin--we ewere made to be more godlike and function quite differently. We were corrupted. I think the war--the spiritual battle and decision people have to make--was turned out to be a good thing by God because that's what He does. Now we have to choose and search for truth.In that way this 'mythology' makes a lot of sense to me.
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Armaneconalie
Jedi Knight Who Says Ni
Meet the flower of doom!!!!!!!!!!1
Posts: 150
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Mar 7, 2006 14:26:45 GMT -5
Post by Armaneconalie on Mar 7, 2006 14:26:45 GMT -5
OK I don't have much time cause I'm going to the dentist, ;D. But I just had to answer this! (no offense to any one!)
Well first off Jesus gave us St. Peter His Vicar and St. Peter was followed by the Pope who is also the Vicar of Christ. So first God gave us Catholicism and at the time it was called Christianity. And in the well I'll look up what century but I'm guessing the 12th? during the rule of King Henry the 8th. He was a good and devote Catholic. Then he wanted a divorce from his wife at that time queen Cathrine who couldn't give him a male heir, but the Pope would not allow it and Jesus did say on the sermon on the mount Matt Ch. 5-7 that you can not get divorced or else you commit adultery because God recognizes it as a marriage still. So since the Pope would not grant him a divorce so he beheaded his wife got married to Ann Boleyn and started the church of England. So that how all the other "offspring's" you might say started. again I mean no offense!
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Apr 28, 2006 22:43:02 GMT -5
Post by Agathos Arete on Apr 28, 2006 22:43:02 GMT -5
You are writing a Gospel, a chapter a day, By deeds that you do, by words that you say. Men read what you write, whether faithless or true; Say, what is the Gospel according to you?
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